Int.: Ok, alright, cool. So, we’ll just start off with where you were born and where you grew up? 

Fauziya: Oh, ok. Born in Somerset but I don’t remember that so I just say I’m from London, yeah I got brought up in London by my dad, my mum, and then I moved to Liverpool in 2007, so I’ve been here for a long while. Here more than London, it’s better here than London. Yeah.

Int.: When did you realise that you were queer?

Fauziya: Oh, gosh. Ok, so when – It’s gonna sound really weird, but when I was eight, like me and my friend kissed - she’s still cis female now. But I didn’t think of it as anything, it was to James Morrison ‘You’re Beautiful’, it was - it was so cringey. But when I think back, I was thinking at that time I didn’t even know, kind of like, what like being LGBTQ was because my family didn’t educate me on that. Like, they’d deliberately kept that separate. So that’s when I was eight, but it was just like - you know, like a child kiss. But then after that in school when I was surrounded by my friends and then my friend Lucy* came out to me as bisexual, and I was like, “[gasp] That’s a thing?” You know what I mean? So, then I started kind of just getting crushes from then, but I just pushed them down a little bit because my family was like “It’s not real”.

Int.: Yeah.

Fauziya: Yeah, like basically like, people in the LGBT community didn’t exist to them, which is really, really cute of them.

Int.: Yeah, really good. 

Fauziya: Yeah. 

Int.: So, at what point did you start to… come out more and be more comfortable?

Fauziya: It was in… in my friends group, when I was about 14. That was like, we were referred to as ‘The gay goths’ because like, really really nice of my school but… but, ‘cause a lot of people in our little friends group did identify in the LGBT - as queer and we were all like, kind of like, emo? And I don’t… I don’t really like using that word anymore ‘cause people use it in the bad way. But we dress in a particular style and I felt comfortable with them because they were just chilled and whilst I was at school I was one person, then when I was at home I was the complete opposite. Yeah. So that’s when I was feeling comfortable, a little bit, with myself but secretly not letting anyone else know. [laughs]

Keeping it in. Yeah, no my whole school was generally just homophobic and that was Calderstones and I don’t know why the whole vibe was homophobic, but like ‘gay’ was bad and like, ‘trans’ was unheard of too, anything like… Yeah, but I don’t know if it’s changed a little bit now. We didn’t get educated on it too, I can’t remember it being mentioned very much. And… there was a big Muslim community too, within Calderstones and generally the Muslim community is homophobic and that’s because that’s how I was brought up. But I think people are becoming more open now and they’ve got to segregate it between ‘Is it a cultural thing?’ or ‘Is it a religious thing?’ and I think more people are making the distinction and then things are gonna get better [laughs].

Int.: Yeah.

Fauziya: I hope so. Yeah, that’s it. 

Int.: Was there ever a point where you got comfortable enough around your family to come out?

Fauziya: [laughs] Right, I can’t remember the age but at that time I, I was fairly certain I was a lesbian, and then as I grew up, you know like, sexuality changes for some people?

Int.: Yeah.

Fauziya: And so I just started crying and I was struggling a lot with my mental health at this point, and I was just like at my wit’s end and my mum and I really didn’t like each other, but I was just like, “I don’t care if I get kicked out, like she just needs to know so that I’m not faking it anymore.” So, I was like, “Mum, do you know what I am?” Because I felt ashamed of it talking, even just mentioning the word lesbian in front of her, I was like “Do you know what I am?” And she was like “No, what are you?” And I was like “I’m a lesbian!” [laughs] And this sounds dead dramatic, but I was sobbing, and she was just like “Oh” and she just – it was like I had just told her I’d had a sandwich, but it was in a bad way, she didn’t acknowledge it and that just made everything worse. So I was like, “Ok,” so she knows that like at that time I was self-harming, she knows that I was abusing alcohol and weed and everything, but then when it comes to like telling her about sexuality she just like… that doesn’t exist yet again, you know what I mean?

Int.: Yeah. 

Fauziya: So that’s always annoyed me to this day. But she didn’t kick me out which is what I was really happy about, because I’d already ran away a few times at that point, because of how abusive she could get, so, yeah… That’s, that’s how I came out. I said to my sister that on the Facebook you could put like ‘Complicated’ in a relationship and it was dead dramatic. And I was with a girl called Rebecca* and she was my first kiss, and then my Sister said “Oh, you were in a relationship, like ‘Oh it’s complicated’,” and she was like, “Who is it with?” and I was like, “Oh, her name’s Rebecca*” - this was on the phone by the way - and she was like “What?” and I was like, “Yeah.” She goes, “You kissed a girl?” And I was like, “What do you think?” Do you know what I mean? So, I dunno. She’s kind of always - my Sister’s always dismissed it as well, but she used to work in Pink which I think is closed now isn’t it?

Int.: Yeah.

Fauziya: So I was thinking, you’d work for a company who is openly like you know, letting people have a good time but you won’t support the company so I found that really irritating, and I found that I kind of just wanted to ring up the company and be like, “Hey! By the way…” [laughs] But I didn’t want to ruin her life or her financial situation, but… yeah, so that’s it really.

Int.: That is bizarre though. 

Fauziya: Completely bizarre! But it’s just like… I don’t know how she got there? I don’t know why she stayed there if she didn’t agree. And to be honest it’d benefit the company if they didn’t have somebody who was like that. So she was shocked that my first kiss was a girl, and - well, sorry, that I cast that as my first kiss rather than the eight year old one. Yeah, that’s it, yeah.

Int.: So, growing up, did you have any spaces that you felt safest and like most visible, where you could just be yourself?

Fauziya: Yeah, GYRO.

Int.: GYRO. 

Fauziya: GYRO was like the place to be.

Int.: How did you come to find GYRO?

Fauziya: I think it was through my friend Timothy*? I think it was through him, I used to get counselling at the same time in the same space, but GYRO was like, my safe haven. It was like - you, have you been?

Int.: Yeah, I work with them. 

Fauziya: Oh! Ok, we can talk about that after. But yeah, I haven’t been for a long while, but it was just it was just a place because the sofas were so bright, and they’d always have like tea and coffee. Like the staff, I didn’t know if they were like volunteering or they were getting paid or anything, but I remember like a few staff like Rhonda* and Steph* and… forgotten his name… Callum* as well. They were great. Yeah, they were the best. 

Int.: What was the first time you went there like?

Fauziya: I can’t even… I can’t even remember, I’ve just never felt uncomfortable there though, and I’ve never felt like I didn’t deserve to be there as well, because my sexuality was so fluid. Like, it was just everywhere. Which is not a bad thing, it’s just very confusing. Yeah. It was just, it was just a nice place. And I would lie to my mum, saying that I was going somewhere else or I was at my friend Aaran* house but really, I was there. So, I don’t regret lying to her about that, it was a great time, and I remember Stephen Fry came for an interview, but I couldn’t be in the interview because I’d expose myself, so… Yeah, it was cool though. Thanks Stephen.

Int.: As if! I’m well jealous. [laughs] 

Fauziya: [laughs] It was a long while ago though. 

Int.: So how has the queer scene in Liverpool changed over time for you, from back in your GYRO days to now?

Fauziya: Personally, in my personal circle, I’ve not been friends with as many people who are queer. I don’t know why, I don’t know if I’ve just kind of like, gone to University and then people are just not as open, or… But I feel like I’m not as engaged anymore? In general like, I think the scene has just gotten better. I think the places are getting more funding. Personally… erm… yeah, I don’t know, my family hasn’t changed, their views very much. Yeah… to be honest, I wish I was more engaged. I do try to go to Pride, but then there’s so much negativity around Pride and then, in people saying stuff about Pride and it’s just like a drinking festival, you have to pay for it or there’s kind of like people who are protesting against it. I just want to kind of like - kind of ignore that.

Int.: Yeah. 

Fauziya: Do you know what I mean? I’m like, I think that’s just bad energy coming at me. I think that’s pretty much it. And especially because certain political parties and certain campaigns… they’ve become more and more comfortable with being fascist in general, but then also like, if one queer person does something wrong like, “That’s the definition!” You know like, I’ve forgotten his name, a guy who lied about being beaten up or something in America?

Int.: Yeah, yeah.

Fauziya: Is it Jussie Smollet?

Int.: I can’t remember his name, he’s an actor, isn’t he?

Fauziya: Yeah, yeah. I don’t even know if that’s fully been proved that he lied but… it’s, it’s - They use that as an example for saying - for justifying their incorrect reasoning… That pisses me off…

Int.: And then yeah, this week we’ve had… how many beatings?

Fauziya: Oh my god! The couple in London! Do you know what I mean, like… Yeah… It’s… Yeah…

Int.: Yeah. It’s sad. So, where there any spaces that you felt less comfortable growing up, being yourself?

Fauziya: My home. My home, simultaneously my school. If… If I was in erm - Oh, because I got outed as well.

Int.: Oh really?

Fauziya: Yeah. By somebody… erm… and the whole school found out that - I at that time I identified as lesbian, so then when I was in the P.E. space, it was erm - I don’t want to say like traumatic because then that sounds really like, dramatic, but I felt like I was a predator just by getting changed, do you know what I mean? So, I always used to try and go to the showers bit, a little bit and kind of just stay there, just to kind of like overly justify to people that “I’m not looking at you in that way!” And oh… so annoying. So yeah, simultaneously P.E. changing rooms.

Int.: Yeah.

Fauziya: Fun.

Int.: My school was rubbish. [laughs] Erm… Have you noticed in growing up and with certain things changing, have you noticed more queer people around in general and like, just being themselves and living their best life and, how does that make you feel?

Fauziya: I’ve seen a lot more queer people in art spaces, which is fucking fantastic because otherwise it would just be cis middle class white men, they’re taking over the spaces and judging artists and a lot more are - because that’s what I’m involved in sorry, art and journalism. So, I’ve seen a lot more people who are expressing themselves there. Weirdly, not weirdly… But like, oddly enough I’ve been noticing a lot more people holding hands outside? When I was with Rebecca*, back in the day, I wouldn’t hold hands because I was just terrified, you know, someone would like spit at me or hurt her or erm… Yeah, so I’ve noticed a lot more people literally just being openly and just showing affection in that way. Whereas like, heterosexual couple, they wouldn’t even think twice, y’know? Because they’re of privilege, so… Yeah that’s what I’ve noticed… I think that streaming platforms as well, like Netflix they’ve got lot of – I think they’ve got a whole category, haven’t they? So, such a big platform like that and how it’s… everyone, regardless if you’re homophobic or not, you’ve probably got Netflix and it’s still there. It’s kind of like a mini protest, in a way, which is nice, and Blue is the Warmest Colour is my favourite film ‘cause it’s just so beautifully shot and it’s all also in French and I’m just like “Oh it’s amazing.”

Int.: Have you read the graphic novel?

Fauziya: No! I think the graphic novel is called The Life of Adele? Which is like, it’s like… Is it a different name?

Int.: I can’t think of that… off the top of my head. 

Fauziya: No, I haven’t read it. No, I struggle to read, which is ironic, because of what I’m in, but I struggle to like sit down and read because my concentration just isn’t there. 

Int.: Well, on a side note, comics are good for that, because me too.

Fauziya: Oooh, oh good point actually, ok, yeah, that’s a good point, very visual. 

Int.: Cool. So, you mentioned that you’re involved in art and journalism and stuff, do you want to talk a little bit about what it is you do and everything? 

Fauziya: Yeah! It’s a thing called ROOT-ed, it’s for people of colour from the North West who are creative. We started it about a year-ish ago, about a year and three months ago. That is to support people who are of colour, because we’re not as represented… So then in October we’ve got a mental health LGBTQIA and Black History because I feel like that ties in a lot. So, like, in the kind of like, Caribbean, Somalian community, which I am in, they are very very homophobic. And then so if you’re like thinking about your sexuality or feeling things, that can contribute to your mental health, so then I feel like it all links in, in some way. So, we’re gonna have a big issue, hopefully like a hundred pages, just, yeah. Yeah. That’s basically what I do, just zines and it’s mainly based in Liverpool. 

Int.: Yeah. What sort of made you wanna start ROOT-ed?

Fauziya: In university me and my - the co-founder now, my friend at the time, we were both isolated at school and we used to see each other, and we only recognised each other in University. And then we basically just noticed that visually, the whole University was very very Caucasian and we felt like none of our tutors knew what we were going through, so we just thought like if no one else is gonna do it might as well do it ourselves. [laughs] You know what I mean, just publish yourself. And that’s one of our aims now, is to let people know that they can independently publish if they want to, because everyone’s heard the J. K. Rowling story of like how she went to like, millions of different publishers. Yeah, so just publish yourself. Yeah that’s how we started it. 

Int.: Cool. So where are the spaces now in Liverpool that you feel most like accepted and visible?

Fauziya: Galleries! I’m gonna go with galleries. Walker Art gallery, they did a great exhibition, I think last year? Or the year before? Called ‘Coming Out’. Output Gallery is very open, has exhibited a lot of queer artists. GYRO, I’m sure, is still such a great space, have not been back for a while though, should make a visit. Just YPAS in general and… I’m trying to think of the places, I can’t…

Int.: Is there anywhere that’s like, a go-to for you where you’re like…

Fauziya: Drinking-wise, the Post House if that’s still open, I used to go there quite a lot. [pause] For me, no. Like I said I guess I had like not many of my friends who I talk to now who are queer in that way, which is sad but I don’t want to be forcibly like, “You’re queer! Oh let’s be friends!” You know what I mean? Because I feel like that’s tokenising a little bit. So yeah, that’s it. This space seems pretty accepting. 

Int.: [laughs] Yeah. Well. As a big queer myself, yes. So, is there anything you’d like to see changed or improve in Liverpool regarding like queer people?

Fauziya: More people in positions of power making more of an obvious effort to advocate for funding but also to get people involved and to get people not suppress themselves. For example I was at a council meeting like, it’s like - so it’s like the head of National Museums of Liverpool, head of Dada Fest and all of these very powerful people in one room and they were doing presentations and we’d done ours about people of colour, another one did about museum heritage, and I noticed like, there was like no representation for queer people and trans people, like no… Nothing. And that annoyed me because that was in the town hall, very prestigious room, chandeliers and paintings and things worth like more than everyone’s income in the air. And… So places with people in positions of power are not doing enough with that power, I think they just kind of focus on their job as a day job which, they have a right to, I guess, get their pay cheque and go home but they don’t exercise that power. So… Even like being in like, ROOT-ed that like is still a position of power compared to other people who’d maybe not have the resources to have that platform? That’s why I think it has to be done. I can’t just sit back and be like, “Oh well, y’know, I’ve sorted myself out, I know who I am now,” other people are still struggling. Yeah.

Int.: So, what about the queer community, as a whole, do you think that there’s things that we need to improve on?

Fauziya: Yes. People not criticising other people’s sexuality, which is really like, it’s like internal homophobia. Like internalised misogyny and racism, it’s just… It’s like when people kind of look at some bisexual people and be like, “No, choose a side” or if they look at lesbians and say that like, “Maybe – y’know - you should actually branch out”. But like - you know what I mean? It’s like so perplexing! [laughs] It just - it - I’m laughing because I’m shocked that it happens but, at the end of the day like… There’s institutionalised racism, there’s institutionalised homophobia, there’s everything and… it, it’s hard to not… criticise yourself anyway as a person and then that can be bled into, people can be very toxic and I just… I just wish that the community was just more chilled. And just kind of looking at other people and being like, “Ok! I’m gonna just take what you say that you are to me and I’m just gonna not like, judge that or interrogate that, I’m just gonna accept it.” you know? Like that just seems so much easier. 

Int.: Yeah, I think other people need to criticise absolutely everything and that just…

Fauziya: And th-th-that-!! 

Int.: When it’s to do with a person and they’re telling you how they feel and who they are – 

Fauziya: Yep!

Int.: - Then there’s just no need to question that anymore.

Fauziya: No! That’s it! And another thing –

Int.: Question the media, yeah – 

Fauziya: Yeah, of course.

Int.: - Don’t question people. 

Fauziya: Exactly! Because media’s not vulnerable, people are. Another thing is about people are campaigning that there’s too many genders? And there’s too many labels? I’m not saying anymore…

Int.: One of the questions on here actually is: How do you feel about, labels and the development of labels and stuff? So, we may as well go straight into that one.

Fauziya: Absolutely fine! I think it’s absolutely fine to identify as anything, so long as it’s not toxic to yourself, as long as it’s not toxic for other people, it’s absolutely fine. Like, what is wrong with it? It’s not hurting anybody, it doesn’t cost anything, if it makes you feel better then that’s it, you know? Like what the hell is wrong with people just kind of feeling comfortable with how they wanna describe themselves and some people saying that putting labels on yourself complicates things, but actually no, I think they actually do the opposite effect and calm people and be like, “Ok, I am this”. And they can write it out in a sentence and see what they are. And then that sentence can change. What’s wrong with that?

Int.: I think that’s a really good way of describing it. Also labels work for some people and it doesn’t work for others. You don’t need to force either viewpoint on the other person.

Fauziya: Exactly!

Int.: Just be! Just exist!

Fauziya: Where’s the logic gone! 

Int.: Do you have any things about the community that you do love? We’ll go positive again. 

Fauziya: Just how funny everyone is. I don’t why, I think it’s like cause if you - I think if you’ve been through a certain amount of pain, and experience in life, that you can find the funnier things in a lot of different aspects. So, like how, there’s a lot of - not inside jokes? - but just a lot of kind of, jokes that make you feel like you’re a part of the community. So, I like the humour, so for example if Donald Trump does something really outrageous yet again, we can find humour in that. That’s pretty much like, the biggest thing. [pause] I’m thinking about religion and about how people are embracing their religion and also their sexuality and their gender and and… they’re bringing it together, because I’m just thinking about a few people in my head, I dunno, maybe 20 years ago, it would be possible but I think it would be much harder for people to kind of… ignore culture, or I don’t know like I don’t want to put like a specific religion on what I’m thinking about, but Islam is always going to be in my head. Even though like, I’m basically an atheist now, it erm… I kind of like… I try to see religion in a nice way. So, I like, I like that conjunction together that people are embracing. And then talking about it too. I like that, because that makes other people comfortable and like good media is good. [laughs] You know what I mean? 

Int.: What good media represents. For everyone.

Fauziya: Exactly. When it doesn’t have an agenda, like it’s just pure. “This is my thoughts, that’s it”. Yeah.

Int.: Well again, this is leading perfectly into the next question. So, I was gonna ask, how do you think the public perception of like, queer people, gay icons, has changed and do you think that it’s always a good thing or do you think there’s some bad aspects of it?

Fauziya: Of having people as gay icons?

Int.: Yes. Of queer media in general.

Fauziya: The beauty community on YouTube is, has got a lot of openly queer people and that’s fascinating to see because it’s, first of all, it’s not really in the UK that I can think of anyone, so it’s in America, but it’s still like, y’know, English, so a lot of people generally understand it but - and how they’re very very blunt about it, so I like that. So, I can think of like some people, but they’re also quite problematic in other aspects. But I think that, that is good in some way because it adds to the like, making these people not just icons but humans and humans do make mistakes and they make really like, horrible mistakes. But… I don’t think it’s ever a bad thing, ever. I think if they fetish - fetishise, can’t say that word. I think if they’re that then yes, that can be bad and that needs to be addressed. But most of the time I think it’s just another way of getting more people – especially just into - you know people who’re just into for example, who’re reading the news in the morning, if one of them was openly queer, that’d be great! Because then like you’d just feel represented just like if there was someone of colour. Yeah, I don’t think that it’s ever a bad thing. I don’t know how it’s changed from the past either, it’s just gotten, it’s just become more apparent with the internet, that’s it. 

Int.: Do you feel represented or do you think that there needs to be more? 

Fauziya: Personally… as a pansexual woman of colour, no. No. I don’t. I’ve never met another person. Not with the exact same, like you know, but similar. No, not really. Especially with pansexuality and the jokes that are made about it and everything else. Yeah. I don’t know, I dunno. I don’t feel represented that much. But I can represent myself, so I’m still, I’m still in a privileged position, y’know? So maybe I could make more of an effort to do, to write more articles sorry, about my own experience if that makes sense. 

Int.: That’s a really good way of looking at it. Because a lot of people would just be like, “No I’m not represented, someone represent me,” but I like that whole – 

Fauziya: Just do it yourself.

Int.: Yeah. [laughs] 

Fauziya: Just DIY. I feel like my whole life is DIY, B&Q it. Yeah. Cool.

Int.: Yeah, but at the same time, you should start off with representation, it shouldn’t all be down to you. 

Fauziya: Having to write another 1000 words, no that’s cool.  

Int.: So then, if you had one message to your younger self, or the younger queer community now, what would it be? 

Fauziya: [pause] Don’t think authority is always right. That’s… Yeah. That’s it. Don’t.. yeah. 

Int.: That’s a good finishing bit.

Fauziya: Of any sort though! Trump’s an authority, he ain’t right. My Mum was an authority, she wasn’t right. Even the police can be… apathetic towards hate crime. Yeah, that’s it, that’s literally it.

Int.: Cool, cool. That’s really good.