Int.: Cool. So we’ll just start off with where you were born and where you grew up.

Heather: Erm, so I grew up in Huyton and I was born in Whiston. Moved into Warrington and in out of Liverpool when I was 16. And I miss it, yeah. I was born in Huyton, and I’m more familiar with those parts. All my friends now are from Warrington. 

Int.: When did you realise that you were queer? 

Heather: I feel like, quite late. I realised when I like…I would say second year of college, so I must have been about 17. I never really had like any of those moments that most of the queer people I know, sort of have those like, “oh I knew when I was 7”. The only moment before that I can remember realising, I think I might have been 12. It sounds so cliché it’s so funny. I was watching, of all the things, I think it was like a performance of a ballet. But cause all the women in it were in tights, I dunno there was just something about it. I was just watching all these women dance, I had like such a horrible moment where my head just started spiralling. I was like ‘Oh my god, I’m gay, I’m gay, I’m gay!’ And then after that I just forgot about it like, and pretended it just didn’t happen. That must have happened when I was about 12. Then after that I had a boyfriend even after that…that’s a whole different story. But yeah, I never properly realised, and came out until I was 17. 

Int.: Yeah. How was that, did you come out immediately to people?

Heather: It was an interesting time. I did come out as bi first, cause I never thought I could have a boyfriend and identify as a lesbian. Looking back with an adult mindset, nothing about that was an actual relationship. So yeah, I did come out as bi first. It probably was just a bit of a confusing time…erm…I like, never really got to properly come out to my parents. I think I mentioned it in such a nonchalant way and didn’t expect it to be a coming out moment. I just expected them to…just move on as if it was nothing cause I mentioned it so passively. But yeah, I got a text immediately like an hour later from my Dad saying, “your mum just told me that you said your bi, how come you’ve never told us this?”. I didn’t expect him—I didn’t expect anyone to be shocked, cause people were calling me gay before I knew I was gay. All through high school I had short hair and I was the only girl in my year who had short hair. I was like a baby butch before I knew.

Int.: You say you say your dad was shocked, was it still an accepting environment? 

Heather: Yeah, it was accepting…it was accepting after a while. I think they were just shocked…I don’t….I think he was just upset that I hadn’t told him before but I never thought of it as a thing I needed to say. I dunno, I think they were just more like, felt that I’d been keeping something from them but I didn’t think of it like that. I’ve had a couple of slightly…problematic moments with my parents, but nothing on the level of outwardly trying not to accept me. The only thing I can really remember that has  stuck with me, I remember one time I was on holiday with my mum after I’d came out as bi and she said, she’s always been a parent that wanted to be so truthful with me, she’s always about truth, from me to her and from her to me, she’s always been so candid about everything. She said to me when we were on holiday together, she said, “I can’t lie to you and say that if you didn’t end up marrying a man that I wouldn’t be disappointed”. I was so bothered by that, that on the holiday I couldn’t get past it, and she was like, she told me that I’d ruined the holiday and everything. It was such a hard time, she told me I was bullying her and like it was so, it was a lot. It’s the only thing I remember. It’s sad because I think on my wedding day to a woman, I will remember that. But that’s the only thing that I really haven’t been able to get past. Just little things like that, I don’t think she thought of that as homophobic, she just thought that she was being honest. But, I mean I understand why she would feel like that because she’s never known anything different in her life, that’s her idea of happiness. She wants that for me cause she thinks that’s happiness. But I think we have grown since then, that was a long time ago. That’s the only thing I can remember being a massive difficulty. 

Int.: So when did you realise that bisexual wasn’t the label?

Heather: When I had my first relationship with a woman. Or no, maybe not. Probably a lot before then actually. Not even when I was in a relationship with a woman but I think I just realised, like…as an adult everyone whether you’re queer or not has to look back at things like shaping moments during childhood and adolescence and I just realised as a kid I always thought—and in High school, I always thought, oh I’m just the type of girl who always has a best friend who’s a girl. It was always so intense, we’d have such horrible fallouts that were way too intense for just friends. One time I remember I was having such trouble with this girl, I was crying all the time in high school cause she didn’t want to be friends with me anymore and we fell out over summer, and my head of year at the time pulled me into her office and she said “I just want to talk to you about this. Do you like girls or do you like boys?” and I was like…how dare you! It’s so funny think back on how obvious it was to everyone else but I was so oblivious. I had one really close best friend and she even told me at one point that she’s not sure if her feelings for me were just friends…and I said to her that I saw her as just a friend and I think it was because I never really had any sort of sexual or romantic feelings until I was…almost an adult really. At one point I thought I was asexual, but I think it might have been something to do with me repressing being gay….but I told her that I didn’t have those feelings for her, which looking back was so untrue I just didn't recognise them as that. She had a really homophobic dad and he hated me so much he didn’t want me to come round to the house, and one time—Hah, I’m just telling you my life story now! One time…

Int. Ha, that’s the whole idea of this!

Heather: We used to hang out so much and I fell asleep in her bed because I was exhausted but nothing happened…but her Dad walked into the room and cause I was asleep in the bed…he kicked off! And I never understood it at the time. He always used to make comments about me wearing Dr Martens and baring in mind my hair was very short at the time I think he, as a stereotypical homophobic dad, just saw me and the alarm bells were just screaming ‘dyke’. I dunno, things like that I look back on are strange because I never really thought about it. I’ve always been so independent, never until recently have I thought about wanting to be in a long-term relationship or anything so, I just wasn’t thinking of how like, I’ve had such gay relationships with girls and just never thought of them as relationships. She works in Liverpool now, she still messages me from time to time and she has boyfriend. I just think…I want to tell her that I recognised what happened now but, I dunno it’s not  really appropriate, we’re just such different people.  

Int.: So when you came out and you were starting to be more comfortable with the idea of “ok I’m not straight”, were there any places that you felt that were safe spaces to be yourself?

Heather: Oh, that’s a really good question, when I came out…I mean…kind of mainly just online, I think the things that I learnt about myself came from online like, all the terms that I now know, how to process the things that I experienced, that all came from online.

Int.: Is there any particular website or anything that helped? I know for me it was Tumblr.

Heather: Erm, oh god yeah! Tumblr is such a queer safe space. I never really got into Tumblr, I always knew it was that but, I think it was probably twitter that I was…yeah, twitter, I was very active on twitter and learnt all the things I know. Like, erm, processing my compulsory ‘het' relationship, I only know that because of what I read. Yeah, I think it’s just really easy to get informed about things you would not otherwise know because of the internet, but in terms of physical safe spaces…I just have a really coincidentally queer group of friends that are from my college so…I think what I do want to emphasise is that I never really had a close group of friends in high school and I never really saw it as a problem. I was fine. I was always the type of person who was waiting out for a proper circle like a proper group of friends. You will find that, whether it’s at college, university or in life, yeah, that’s my safe space. My queer group of friends. 

Int.: So I guess having that group meant you didn’t really need to go out and search for somewhere. That’s really nice. 

Heather: Yeah, I’m really lucky in that sense.

Int.: Once you came out were you out to everyone? Were you out in day to day life or was it more you told certain people, you didn’t tell others?

Heather: Yeah, once I was out as bi I was always very open about that and I think…I didn’t ever want to because I’d heard so many things that were like…even my dad was just talking about gay people in general and he said “I work with loads of gay people. I don’t mind, I don’t mind, but when they rub it in your face”. And I said, ‘well I don’t mind straight people but I hate it when they rub it in your face!’ like ah, whatever. So I kind ofinternalised that. I always think it’s really brave when people who have a facebook that has all their extended family on and they say “look, this is me” in a paragraph. I thought of it more as a gradual thing in that,I knew people were noticing that I was big into activism, people would make jokey comments about me,  making political posts all the time but over time I found it a lot easier to come out to family members via the things I share. I think it’s very clear now from the things that I do share, cause I will just openly say it. I think it was a gradual process, especially to extended family I haven’t seen in a long time cause, I dunno…I think in a way, it’s not easier but different, in that if I thought that people knew from when I was very very young then I might not feel as apprehensive…as I did…but now, yeah, I don’t…I feel like it’s so much easier to come out now than it was 10 or even 5 years ago. Just because of queer media and how popular it is. Even with straight people. I never really thought it was too difficult to come out. But there is that thing where you are coming out all the time in the workplace, in all the different circles you introduce yourself to like, I’m going to uni in September, and I can’t wait to have to come out again to all those people.

Int.: Have you noticed a change in the queer scene in Liverpool?

Heather: Yes, I remember when the only gay club in Liverpool was Superstar Boudoir. And as much as I love her, she’s messy! Yeah, I feel like they all just popped up at once. They have OMG now, I remember at Pride last year was the first time that I noticed, cause obviously I’ve lived in Warrington now since I was 17 but, yeah at Liverpool pride last year there was just so many more gay bars than when I came when it was just Superstar Boudoir. Definitely noticed a difference. I feel like the queer scene in Liverpool is growing so rapidly and Liverpool Pride is just…it was so good last year. Everything about the gay scene in Liverpool I feel like is thriving and even this like, the existence of this space is so amazing. Yeah. I didn’t really ever feel like there were places to go as a queer person growing up. Not even just clubs. Liverpool pride is such an event, it was so cool just to walk in the parade itself. Liverpool pride will always be my favourite pride. It’s better than Manchester, soz Manchester but yeah.

Int.: What’s it like seeing people be openly queer around Liverpool now and just living their best lives?

Heather: It makes so much more sense because I always, even before I knew I was queer I was so flamboyant in the way that I dressed. I always wanted to like…erm…be outwardly different. I would say, growing up I always identified as weird and different, not—I didn’t identify as queer because I didn’t realise, I didn’t put two and two together. It’s so different from when I remember being like twelve and getting my first train to town from Prescott train station. I would get so many looks but people don’t even look twice now if I come out dressed really flamboyantly. It’s just different. I think there is a bit of a crossover sometimes, especially being a femme, I’ve noticed that at the very turned up version of femininity that I identify with, kind of overlaps with the Scouse bird culture. It’s interesting that there’s a bit of an overlap. I think especially women in Liverpool, they’re a lot more camp than they know. So, yeah I think Liverpool is a lot more accepting than people give it credit for, just for that fact. Even the locals are very camp in ways that they don’t know.

Int.: Is there anywhere in Liverpool that you feel less comfortable being yourself?

Heather: I think in terms of coming out and the night life, there are definitely places that I subconsciously wouldn’t want to like…certain circles of clubs and places that I would and wouldn’t want to go to. I don’t know if that’s because I feel any inherent danger. I’d like to say that I guess I’m quite a brave person so I wouldn’t want to hide myself even if I felt like I was in a place that isn’t necessarily accepting. Some of my friends live in Runcorn so sometimes we go out in Runcorn and I do feel slightly more on my guard there but it’s not as if I would act differently, because of fear of something happening. It’s just that I’m a bit more aware of the type of people that are around. In terms of central Liverpool, I think the culture is a lot more evolved than it was even 5 years ago.

Int.: Where are the spaces in Liverpool that you feel most visible and comfortable?

Heather: Bold Street. I love Bold Street. A queer safe space in Liverpool is Bold Street. That’s where—oh my god rest in peace Quiggins…but erm…yeah, that was definitely a safe space growing up for me. It’s so important to have safe spaces that aren’t clubs for people who are younger. I think I didn’t think of that initially because, I thought of that as a safe space for me as like a weird kid…but I was a queer kid, I just didn’t realise it. I always 100% whenever I would bring people to Liverpool I would take people to Bold Street. Yeah, definitely in terms of safe spaces in Liverpool I think Bold Street straight Away.

Int.: So is there anything that you would like to see change about the queer scene in Liverpool?

Heather: Erm…I mean…mmm, I would like there to be a named gay village in Liverpool the way there is on Canal Street in Manchester and more queer spaces. The thing that I do like about Manchester queer spaces that I wish we could implement in Liverpool is that when it’s a sunny day on Canal Street you just see everybody come out and sit out on the chairs and like, it’s so important to have day time queer spaces as well or cafés and things, not even for younger people but for people who are sober, it’s just so important to include everyone in that way. I do think that there should be more day time queer spaces. 

Int.: Yeah it shouldn’t all revolve around the night scene and drinking. Going a bit broader, is there anything that you dislike about the community as a whole?

Heather: Yes, I don’t know how to articulate the whole of what I’m saying, but it falls under the umbrella of a lot of misogyny in the LGBTQ community as a whole. I think…I don’t know, I read a tweet that really resonated with me recently. I read something  that said “as queer women we show up for gay men in a way that they don’t always show up for us”, and I think that is true, I don’t really feel that level of respect, and even reverence for our side of queer culture. Cause again, talking about when I was growing up, even before I knew I was queer, I was so into queer media that is so heavily biased in sort of the camp and flamboyant and the idea of gay men in culture, and I always loved films and media that show men loving men just as much. Whereas I’m not 100% sure that gay men are sitting around watching ‘Carol’ or y’know…I think in that way it is difficult. I do think it is a problem that straight people do invade queer spaces, but then at the same time, I think at the moment there’s this thing going on that’s really difficult to navigate that is…straight girls, I’m seeing a lot of stuff saying that straight girls are changing the atmosphere of our gay spaces, but then I think…how do you know those girls are straight? I honestly, this is just my opinion, but I honestly don’t think that a lot of those people who are having experiences of straight women invading their spaces are actually seeing straight women, but seeing bi women who feel more comfortable  coming out and being in queer spaces, and its just sad. I was on a night out and a guy came up to me, he was very drunk but he came up and said “why are there so many women like you out tonight?" and I knew exactly what he was saying, I was  just like…ok. I do find that a lot of the queer stuff that I see become mainstream is quite misogynistic too, and I would like to change that aspect of our community. 

Int.: It’s almost like, seeing stereotypes within the community like, “oh you don’t look like the stereotype butch dyke, so you must be straight”.

Heather: Yeah, and I feel like if gay people, if gay men knew anything about lesbian culture they would know that I don’t really look like a straight person, but they don’t know anything about femme’s I guess. I dunno.

Int.: What things do you love about the community? We’ll go positive again.

Heather: What I love about the community erm…that all of the questions marks that I had growing up have been reconciled in the end, things that I didn’t really know like why I enjoyed specific media, why I love a diva or why I love the things that I do love. And yeah, I just feel like the things I love about the community probably is that it’s evolving at such a rate and that we can educate each other. As a community we don’t always understand each other properly but, I feel like that is evolving at such an amazing rate. Like I said, 5 years ago it wasn’t anything like what it is now. Erm…being part of a community is like having a group of friends, I just love having in jokes and things that only we know…the fact that we get to have pride every year…and that’s so important to me. I don’t know how to articulate that. It’s something that only we have and…

Int.: It’s important for us for sure.

Heather: Yeah.

Int.: Do you find labels restricting or do you find comfort in them?

Heather: Yes and no. I think I always wanted to say I was queer just in general, but then after realising the way that I feel about women, I 100% always want to use the word lesbian as much as I possibly can because…I think when I was not sure about my identity, labels didn’t mean as much, but that’s obviously because I wasn’t even sure what my label was. But yeah, I think because it is such a recognisable word I’m lucky in that everybody will understand what I mean when say lesbian. So it is important to me. 

Int.: How do you think the public perception of gay icons and LGBT media has changed in the last few years?

Heather: It’s a good and bad thing I think. The thing that always does come to mind is Ru Paul’s Drag Race and I have such a love hate relationship with the show because it does deliver a very shiny, well packaged, enticing view of the queer community to people who…I think teenagers really identify with it. I would say it was probably important in my development at some point and its definitely a way to find other queer people. Even in college I found that being a fan of that show made it easier for me to connect with other queer people. But I wish it was evolving as fast as our community is evolving. A lot of queer people I know have outgrown it and I wish it was a better example for queer youth because y’know I don’t wanna have to say that oh well, at least we have something, like can’t we have something that is healthy? I mean, in terms of what I said about misogyny in the queer community it’s not great. And it’s not great for trans people either. Queer media in general, I think, because for so many years Hollywood as a whole, and in fashion and things that were always using things from queer people but never really had said it or…like even when Lady Gaga was so famous for all the flamboyant things she was doing she always said that it was borrowed from the queer community, or not borrowed but it was our culture. Don’t think people in general will ever really notice that, but then seeing things like the way that the Met Gala theme this year was ‘camp’, slowly as people start to look back over things they will see the influence. In general, peoples view of what they’ve just seen as weird or flamboyant and wild, they can now connect the dots and see that a lot of their art does come from queer people.

Int.: As a final thing, if you had one message to your younger self or the younger queer community now what would it be?

Heather: Erm…I think it would be that there’s no rush to anything. I was probably very confused about who I was, didn’t realise it was related to sexuality. A lot of the media and a lot of the stories that I’ve heard are people realising age 10 or even younger…but I don’t think that’s always the case. Yeah, the important thing is that I found so much power in being weird. It’s sounds so cliché but when people would call me weird I would get such a rush out of it. I knew I was different and I didn’t know that the nature of the way I was different was because I was queer. But yeah, it is important to find community but then at the same time, you have to have that independence about yourself because you’re not always going to be surrounded on all sides by people who support you. So it is important to get that confidence in what makes you different. That’s what I would say.